Discussion on Bobby Bowden and the state of FSU
M&M Nole - Michael wrote:
"i think it was way past time that he (Bobby Bowden) left. remember the football program was and is about building the character of the young men on the team, and the team itself - not about Him, and some sort of media-constructed competition with Joe Paterno, or building his "legacy". he started phoning things in years ago, and the real beginning of the end was when he was grooming his son to replace (against all the rules about nepotism), and appointed him as "offensive coordinator". well, the whole thing was certainly offensive. i still like the man, but not what he became as a coach. as the song says "you got to know when to fold 'em" - he didn't."
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Bottom line M&M, had Bowden continued to win all that other stuff is not a factor.
What really hurt FSU was recruiting. It's what built their program and it's what destroyed it. They got the recruiting boost when Florida went on probation in 1984, that lead to the tremendous 14 year run of top-5 finishes from 1987-2000.
What hurt their recruiting was joining the ACC it took a while but it finally caught up with them.
| Florida State Seminoles (Independent) (1976–1991) | |||||||||
| 1976 | Florida State | 5–6 | |||||||
| 1977 | Florida State | 10–2 | W Tangerine | 11 | 14 | ||||
| 1978 | Florida State | 8–3 | |||||||
| 1979 | Florida State | 11–1 | L Orange | 8 | 6 | ||||
| 1980 | Florida State | 10–2 | L Orange | 5 | 5 | ||||
| 1981 | Florida State | 6–5 | |||||||
| 1982 | Florida State | 9–3 | W Gator | 10 | 13 | ||||
| 1983 | Florida State | 8–4 (7-5) ‡ | W Peach | ||||||
| 1984 | Florida State | 7–3–2 | T Citrus | 19 | 17 | ||||
| 1985 | Florida State | 9–3 | W Gator | 13 | 15 | ||||
| 1986 | Florida State | 7–4–1 | W All-American | 20 | |||||
| 1987 | Florida State | 11–1 | W Fiesta | 2 | 2 | ||||
| 1988 | Florida State | 11–1 | W Sugar | 3 | 3 | ||||
| 1989 | Florida State | 10–2 | W Fiesta | 2 | 3 | ||||
| 1990 | Florida State | 10–2 | W Blockbuster | 4 | 4 | ||||
| 1991 | Florida State | 11–2 | W Cotton | 4 | 4 | ||||
| Florida State (1976-91): | 143-44-3 | ||||||||
| Florida State Seminoles (ACC) (1992–2009) | |||||||||
| 1992 | Florida State | 11–1 | 8–0 | 1st | W Orange | 2 | 2 | ||
| 1993 | Florida State | 12–1 | 8–0 | 1st | W Orange | 1 | 1 | ||
| 1994 | Florida State | 10–1–1 | 8–0 | 1st | W Sugar | 5 | 4 | ||
| 1995 | Florida State | 10–2 | 7–1 | T-1st | W Orange | 5 | 4 | ||
| 1996 | Florida State | 11–1 | 8–0 | 1st | L Sugar | 3 | 3 | ||
| 1997 | Florida State | 11–1 | 8–0 | 1st | W Sugar | 3 | 3 | ||
| 1998 | Florida State | 11–2 | 7–1 | T-1st | L Fiesta † | 3 | 3 | ||
| 1999 | Florida State | 12–0 | 8–0 | 1st | W Sugar † | 1 | 1 | ||
| 2000 | Florida State | 11–2 | 8–0 | 1st | L Orange † | 4 | 5 | ||
| 2001 | Florida State | 8–4 | 6–2 | 2nd | W Gator | 15 | 15 | ||
| 2002 | Florida State | 9–5 | 7–1 | 1st | L Sugar † | 23 | 21 | ||
| 2003 | Florida State | 10–3 | 7–1 | 1st | L Orange † | 10 | 11 | ||
| 2004 | Florida State | 9–3 | 6–2 | 2nd | W Gator | 14 | 15 | ||
| 2005 | Florida State | 8–5 | 5–3 | 1st (Atlantic) | L Orange † | 23 | 22 | ||
| 2006 | Florida State | 2–6 (7–6) ‡ | 1–5 (3–5) ‡ | 5th (Atlantic) | V Emerald | ||||
| 2007 | Florida State | 0–6 (7–6) ‡ | 0–4 (4–4) ‡ | 3rd (Atlantic) | L Music City | ||||
| 2008 | Florida State | 9–4 | 5–3 | T-1st (Atlantic) | W Champs Sports | 23 | 21 | ||
| 2009 | Florida State | 7–6 | 4–4 | 3rd (Atlantic) | W Gator | ||||
| Florida State (1992-2009): | 161-53 | 111–27 | |||||||
| Total: | 377–129–4 | ||||||||
| National Championship Conference Title Conference Division Title | |||||||||
| †Indicates BCS bowl game. #Rankings from final Coaches Poll. °Rankings from final AP Poll. | |||||||||
Look at the national champions from the SEC since 1996 (hey why not start there???)SEC
1996 - Florida
1998 - Tennessee
2003 - LSU
2006 - Florida
2007 - LSU
2008 - Florida
2009 - Alabama
ACC
1999 - FSU
2001 - Miami
Miiami was still with the Big East in 2001.
The SEC is just more appealing to the top recruits they just want to play there that statement has been proven by success in the draft to recruiting rankings. It is very difficult for many teams in the Southeastern region to compete with the SEC appeal. The best want to play against the best.
When all that conference realignment was being talked about FSU was and is extremely interested in joining the SEC. It was like holding some liver to a dog's nose, sure they'd get the crap kicked out of them at first but over time the recruiting boost they'd get from it would be tremendous.
FSU had that 14 year run of excellence. They reloaded the QB position with fourth year juniors and had the best LBs three deep. They had great rush ends, perhaps the best production there in that time period.
They began their decline with the QB position and at DE, then WR wasn't what it used to be, the last decade starting in 2001 it's been a mess.
(Sharrif Floyd Gator DT recruit to right)Now perhaps Bowden had a part in the school opting for the ACC over the SEC, it worked for a while but then that decision caught up with them.
Jimbo Fisher can recruit his heart out, the bottom line is last year two 7-5 SEC teams, Georgia and South Carolina, beat Georgia Tech and Clemson the two teams who played in the ACC conference championship game.
To put that into perspective four teams in the SEC had better records than Georgia who finished with an 8-5 season, and there were two other teams Arkansas and Auburn who had 8-5 records. South Carolina finished with a 7-6 record. There were only two teams in the SEC who had worse than a 7-6 record, Tennessee and Kentucky each ended with the 7-6 mark.
You are literally saying two middle of the pack teams in the SEC beat the two best teams in the ACC. Kids see that stuff and it kills recruiting.
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